There are very few subjects that gender as much conversation as the subject of the Holy Ghost, spiritual gifts and the use of tongues within the Christian church.
One Biblical character, Cornelius (Acts 10:1-33) and the Italian Band or regiment is vitally important in helping us understand both the purpose, power and move of God among the early church and gentiles.
Now, I may not get many traditional scholars to agree with me beyond this point because a clear understanding of what actually happened to Cornelius challenges the theological assumptions of many conservatives and fundamentalists, however that doesn’t dissuade me from doing my best to set forth a clear and well reasoned argument explaining the events recorded in Acts 10.
Who Was Cornelius?
Cornelius was a Roman Soldier (gentile), a centurion within the Italian Band which was a volunteer army from Italy. He was part of a Regiment (Band or Cohort) of soldiers consisting of approximately 600 men. As compared to a Legion of 3,000 to 6,000 men. As you can see 6 Centurions and their soldiers helped make up 1 Band or Cohort of soldiers. 10 Regiments made up 1 Legion of soldiers. The headquarters of the Roman forces in Judea were at Cæsarea.[1] Therefore, Cornelius oversaw approximately 100 men at what could be termed as the regional headquarters.
Cornelius along with his family, are said to have been the first gentile converts recorded in scripture and added to the New Testament Church. While that has been a traditional understanding, I wish to challenge that assertion based on the following observations:
- Scripture suggests that Cornelius was an eyewitness to the ministry of Jesus and or his resurrection.
- Scripture suggests that Cornelius was a believer by confession and subsequent actions before he met Apostle Peter.
- Scripture suggests that Peter’s meeting with Cornelius was to accept him into the NT church and solidify his relationship with the church and God with the evidence and sign of Holy Ghost Baptism.
These statements break with traditional scholarship on this issue and I will outline the reasoning and scriptural evidences for each assertion in the remainder of this writing.
I: Cornelius, An Eyewitness To The Ministry Of Jesus Or His Resurrection
First, I wouldn’t make this assertion unless I believed that there was credible evidence from scripture to support it. Let’s look at some of that evidence:
Part of understanding Cornelius’s relationship with the New Testament church (hereafter NT) and Apostles is buried in understanding both his own testimony and the testimony of Apostle Peter as he began dialogue with Cornelius.
Acts 10:28 ~ “And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but God hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean”
Peter here is referring to the separation of the Jew from those individuals considered to be ceremonially and religiously unclean. Similar to the discussion between Jesus and the Woman at the well from Samaria (Jn. 4:9) we can better understand Peter’s nationalism and puritianism through religious, Semitic eyes. Although Peter is quick to confess that the Lord has showed him that he should not call any man “common or unclean” he is yet wrestling with the idea of having associations with a gentile, whether that gentile is a believer or not. Peter, however in this confession acknowledges Cornelius’s understanding of these same traditions: “Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company…,“
In short not only did Peter have this “knowledge” of the tradition, but Cornelius had it also and Peter is speaking to him using a “matter of fact” statment.
Acts 10:34-37: ~ “34Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. 36The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:) 37That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;”
Concerning v. 37 ~ “37That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;”
This verse (37) indicates that Cornelius also “knew” the word concerning Jesus that had been published. There is also strong suggestion that Cornelius may have come to know that word “from the beginning” or when it was published. Peter speaks as a matter of fact seemingly confirming or restating the facts that Cornelius already knows not instructing or guiding him in any new knowledge that he may not have known.
Concerning the term “began from Galilee” NT scholar and author Richard Bauckham in his landmark work, “Jesus and the Eyewitnesses” says the following:
“Later in Acts Luke depicts Peter preaching a summary of the gospel story with precisely the same parameters and with the claim to witness linked specifically to the resurrection appearances:”… “Significantly, “beginning” (arxamenos) occurs again, here referring to the message preached by Jesus which began from Galilee after the baptism preached by John (10:37).” Richard Bauckham, “Jesus And The Eyewitnesses” 2006 Eerdman’s Publishing Pg. 115 [2]
Peter was talking about the message of Jesus preached and known from the “beginning” (arxamenos) that Cornelius “knew” or had come to know. Yes, Cornelius could have come to know that message after it “began” but Cornelius could have also been a part of that message either during Jesus life or possibly even a eyewitness to the resurrection itself. At either rate his introduction to the message and Jesus did not begin when Peter entered his home and began to preach in Acts 10. Having this understanding may help explain the many characteristics that we observe about Cornelius when he is introduced to us in Acts 10.
When did Cornelius possibly become an eyewitness to the ministry of Jesus?
Mt.8:5-9 ~ “8The centurion answered and said, Lord, I am not worthy that thou shouldest come under my roof: but speak the word only, and my servant shall be healed. 9For I am a man under authority, having soldiers under me: and I say to this man, Go, and he goeth; and to another, Come, and he cometh; and to my servant, Do this, and he doeth it”
This story of an unnamed “centurion” is also found in Lk 7:6. This story is consistent with that found in Acts in the following manner:
-
- Caesarea is approximately 45 miles South-West of Capernium. Certainly this was the region or area that Cornelius and his band could have been given authority to oversee.
- The Centurion acknowledges that he understands the Jewish tradition of restrained fellowship with non-Jews (v.8b) This is consistent with Peter’s testimony in Acts 10:28, and in accordance with what Cornelius already “knew”.
- The centurion acknowledges that he is in authority and “under” authority simultaneously.(v.9) This is consistent with what we know about Cornelius in Acts 10.
- This man is a man of exceptional faith in Acts 10:2, Jesus confirms the same of the centurion, Lk. 7:9b “…I say unto you, I have not found so great faith, no, not in Israel.”
Although these are only parallels, they are parallels that may offer some significant insights into who Cornelius actually was and cannot simply be discounted for convenience sake as many do today.
II: Was Cornelius “Saved” or a “Believer” before he met Peter?
There is compelling textual evidence that Cornelius was a believer before he met Peter in Acts 10 we are introduced to Cornelius in the following manner:
- He is a “devout” man(v.2)
- God fearer (v.2)
- He leads his family in worship (v.2)
- He is an abundant giver (v.2)
- He is faithful to God in prayer (v.2)
- He had a vision of an angel of the Lord (v.3)
- He offers prayers that availed before God (v.4)
Now these characteristics are not the characteristics of one who is merely a good gentile, pagan or pagan worshipper of his day. Part of the problem is the understanding of the word “devout” which has been applied by many scholars to describe a religious Greek. It has been traditionally held that this word does not carry a “Christian” religious sentiment. There are 3 words that are commonly used as “devout” in the Greek:
Devout: Eulabes and Eusebus
1. eulabes (Strong’s 2126), lit., “taking hold well” (eu, “well,” lambano, “to take hold”), primarily, “cautious,” signifies in the NT, “careful as to the realization of the presence and claims of God, reverencing God, pious, devout”, in Luke 2:25 it is said of Simeon, in Acts 2:5, of certain Jews; in 8:2, of those who bore Stephen’s body to burial; of Ananias, 22:12 (see No. 2). “In that mingled fear and love which, combined, constitute the piety of man toward God, the Old Testament placed its emphasis on the fear, the New places it on the love (though there was love in the fear of God’s saints then, as there must be fear in their love now),” Trench, Syn., Sec.xlviii.¶
- NoteCf. the noun eulabeia, “reverence,” and the verb eulabeomai, “to reverence.”
2. eusebes (Strong’s 2152), from eu, “well,” sebomai, “to reverence,” the root seb- signifying “sacred awe,” describes “reverence” exhibited especially in actions, reverence or awe well directed. Among the Greeks it was used, e.g., of practical piety towards parents. In the NT it is used of a pious attitude towards God, Acts 10:2, 7; (in some mss. in 22:12); “godly,” in 2 Pet. 2:9. ¶ In the Sept., Prov. 12:12; Isa. 24:16; 26:7; 32:8; Mic. 7:2.¶
Notes: (2) Cf. theosebeia, and theosebes, which, by their very formation (theos, “God,” and sebomai, express “reverence” towards God. See Trench (Sec.xlviii).It is usage # 2 or eusebes (Strong’s 2152), that is reflective of the use of the word as it pertains to Cornelius. This word indicates that he “reverenced” God or held God in “awe” by his actions and lifestyle. These are hardly actions consistent with a pagan or a sinner who does not know God or the message of Jesus, either by way of his life personally or in his resurrection.
(1) While eulabes especially suggests the piety which characterizes the inner being, the soul, in its attitude towards God, eusebes directs us rather to the energy which, directed by holy awe of God, finds expression in devoted activity.¶3. sebomai (Strong’s 4576), “to feel awe,” whether before God or man, “to worship,” is translated “devout,” in Acts 13:43, rv (kjv, “religious”); 13:50; 17:4, 17. [3]
It would seem that the word “devout” is certainly not restricted or indicitave to gentile or pagan worship. In fact the word used for devout in this context eusebus confirms an active and vibrant service toward God or religious faith. That vibrance and good work is what Cornelius was known and reported for in the entire Acts 10 discourse.
Are There Textual Problems If Cornelius Wasn’t A Believer Prior To Meeting Peter?
Yes. I will point out at least two of them:
1- If Cornelius was not saved when we are introduced to him in Acts 10 what is his motivator to receive salvation?
The facts are that we are given a portrait of a man who already is in relationship with God in what many have said to be an unregenerate state or condition. This would be a very difficult pitch of the Apostles to try convince this man that there is a deeper relationship with God, when the evidence shows that he was experiencing visions, offering availing prayer and living out a godly life daily. In fact his very relationship with God would fly in the face of all Old Testament scripture especially that of 2 Chronicles 7:14 and Isaiah 59:1-2 which says,
“1Behold, the LORD’S hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear: 2But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.”
Sin would have been a wedge between Cornelius and God. The scripture does not indicate that there was a gap between God and Cornelius in any way. The testimony that Cornelius was already saved is highly consistent with the Biblical narrative and scriptural evidence.
2- If God offers Cornelius some type of “provisional righteousness”, what does that say about the “blood atonement” and the judgement of God upon all unrighteousness?
Many have taken the scripture in Acts 10:35 ~ “ 35But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.” to indicate that God somehow “overlooked” Cornelius’s sin because he “worked righteousness”. Once again this is very problematic as one would have to also believe in alternate methods or routs of salvation outside of Jesus for “nations that work righteousness”. Once again this assertion does not stand under the weight of scripture as Jesus states that “no one comes to the father except through me” John 14:6(b) NKJV
What Happens If Cornelius Was A “Believer” Before He Met Peter?
If we deduce that Cornelius was already “saved” when he met Peter, that eliminates all major obstacles in helping to understand the Lord’s instructions to him.
In Acts 10:5-6 Cornelius was given instruction on what to do in order to get Peter back to him who would later be responsible for telling him “words whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved” Acts 11:14 If this were referring to the act of salvation, this would be a synergistic relationship whereby Cornelius takes part in his own salvation. For those holding views against synergism, it should be noted that without Cornelius “sending men” by God’s instruction salvation would not have come to him or his house. In others words Cornelius would be responsible or take part in saving himself.
This observation is very problematic for those who hold views against synergism and for those who believe that Cornelius was an unsaved individual when we meet him in Acts 10. This scripture alone would give Cornelius “braggin’” rights to claim that he had to assist God in bringing salvation to himself.
Ephes. 2:8-9~ “8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast.”
Since we know that God would not and did not violate his word, we would defy scriptural reason and basis to believe that Cornelius was an unbeliever BUT YET in deep relationship, communion with God and bringing salvation to himself.
How could he already be saved if according to Acts 11: 14 salvation was to “come to his house”?
I believe that this is one of the greatest misunderstandings of the entire encounter. Peter recants:
Acts 11:14-16 ~ “14Who shall tell thee words, whereby thou and all thy house shall be saved. 15And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.”
We already know that “salvation” is through faith by confession:
- Rom. 10:9-11 ~ “9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.”
The act of Peter was not to provide salvation as a matter of faith, but salvation as a matter of divine inclusion in God’s plan and among God’s people. A quick look at the word “salvation”
The verb was used in Acts 11:14 ~ “4982. swvzw soµzoµ, sode´-zo; from a primary sw`” soµs (contr. for obs. savo” saoás, “safe“); to save, i.e. deliver or protect (lit. or fig.):— heal, preserve, save (self), do well, be (make) whole. [4]
4982 sozo { sode’-zo} from a primary sos (contraction for obsolete saoz, “safe”); TDNT – 7:965, 1132; v
- AV – save 93, make whole 9, heal 3, be whole 2, misc 3; 110
- GK – 1751 { ejkswv/zw }* & 5392 { swv/zw }
- 1) to save, keep safe and sound, to rescue from danger or destruction
- 1a) one (from injury or peril)
- 1a1) to save a suffering one (from perishing), i.e. one suffering from disease, to make well, heal, restore to health1b1) to preserve one who is in danger of destruction, to save or rescue1b) to save in the technical biblical sense
- 1b1) negatively
- 1b1a) to deliver from the penalties of the Messianic judgment
- 1b1b) to save from the evils which obstruct the reception of the Messianic deliverance[5]
Upon examination of the scripture, this word has very little to do with the condition or position of “faith”. This has to do with physical and spiritual preservation from danger or peril. Is this not the work of the Holy Ghost in the life of the believer?
Jn. 16:13 ~ “13Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. 14He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. 15All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.”
Once again, if we understand that what Peter was doing had nothing to do with bringing a sinner to repentant faith, that makes the scripture much more understandable as to exactly what God was doing for Cornelius and what HE was doing for Peter’s understanding of “gifts” that he thought were previously allocated only for the house of Israel.
III: What Was Peter’s Mission For Cornelius?
In order to understand this we must pay full attention to the conclusions that Peter gathered from the dream. Peter recants something interesting that cannot simply be overlooked as it pertains to his vision.
Acts 10:15 ~ “15And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.”
Toward the end of Peter’s vision he questioned the food based upon what he knew about ceremonial righteousness. We know that the vision is representative of the gentile’s whom God would save.
Notice how God speaks, “What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.” This is rendered in the past tense. If this was referring to Cornelius, all God would be asking Peter to do would be to accept him into the church community because he is “already clean”. This is exactly what Peter does in verse 47 through extending to Cornelius the rite of Baptism.
The mission of Peter was not to bring Cornelius to “saving faith”, but to extend the opportunity to him to be a part of the church, experience the Power of the Holy Ghost and receive the protection of God.
Summary:
- There is strong scriptural evidence to suggest that Cornelius was either an eyewitness to Jesus ministry or his resurrection.
- There is strong scriptural evidence to suggest that Cornelius was a already saved and God fearing individual before Peter came to his house.
- There is evidence that Cornelius had a deep personal relationship with God that was observed by those around him. His faith was evidenced by his works. (James 2:20)
- If Cornelius was not “saved” before he met with Peter he partook in his own salvation and thereby added to grace by his own works. This could be construed as synergism. Further his relationship with God would contradict scripture as he outlines that he cannot fellowship with sin or a sinner.
- In light of all the evidence it is clear that Peter’s mission to Cornelius was not one to provide “saving faith” as in personal relationship, but “salvation” as in preservation for his soul, family and household deliverance.
Resources:
[1] William Smith; revised and edited by F.N. and M.A. Peloubet, Smith’s Bible dictionary [computer file], electronic ed., Logos Library System, (Nashville: Thomas Nelson) 1997.
[2] Richard Bauckham, “Jesus And The Eyewitnesses” 2006 Eerdman’s Publishing Pg. 115
[3] W.E. Vine, Merrill F. Unger and William White, Vine’s complete expository dictionary of Old and New Testament words [computer file], electronic ed., Logos Library System, (Nashville: Thomas Nelson) 1997, c1996.
[4] James Strong, New Strong’s dictionary of Hebrew and Greek words [computer file], electronic ed., Logos Library System, (Nashville: Thomas Nelson) 1997, c1996.
[5]Enhanced Strong’s Lexicon, (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc1995
Hello,
The Sripture declares that Cornelius was not saved when Peter met him.
(PHB~ Marc, Thank you for stopping by, but I believe that you may have missed the entire article for some reason. I would simply respond by saying where is this “scriptural declaration” as you put it. It simply doesn’t exist)
Concerning the word “forgiveness” in Acts 10:43 Thayer (page 88) writes that it means, “forgiveness, pardon, of sins…remission of their penalty”. He then cites such passages as Acts 2:38; 10:43 and 26:18.
Just as it describes the unsaved in Acts 26:18 so too it does so in Acts 10:43.
(PHB~ Marc, that’s true. There is no confusion over the biblical meaning of the word forgiveness…only in this passage that word is NOT applied to Cornelius….In fact since I know I’m dealing witha staunch “Reformist” here let’s take this verse by verse:)
Acts 10:34-43 ~ “34-Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35-But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.
PHB~ Peter speaks of what he now understands. This is a new understanding that he is sharing with Cornelius and his household
36The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all:) 37That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached;
PHB~ Peter affirms what God has done by sending Jesus and further establishes the fact that Cornelius (at a minimum) already “knew” that word. “That word, I say, ye know,” Once again Peter confirms the relationship of Cornelius to the word and the historical Jesus. He then goes on to tell the historical path of the life of Jesus as follows:
“38-How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.39-And we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree: 40-Him God raised up the third day, and shewed him openly; 41-Not to all the people, but unto witnesses chosen before of God, even to us, who did eat and drink with him after he rose from the dead”
PHB~ Then Peter confirms the commission of the disciples
42-And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead.
PHB~ And the power by which they operate in that commission and the results of that commission:
43-To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.
(PHB~These statement are statements of fact at no point does he apply these statements to Cornelius. If that were the case he would have done as he did in Acts 2:38 “38-Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.” Peter never hesitates to TELL the object of his message to repent. He establishes his own precident within scripture. He at NO POINT does this with Cornelius…It is a misreading and a flat iesegis of scripture to make Peter do other than is recorded in scripture with Cornelius.)
Furthermore these Gentiles had yet to receive the Holy Spirit. After the outpouring on Pentecost (Acts 2:4) if a person did not have the Holy Spirit then they were not a Christian. In fact, to be baptized with the Holy Spirit and to have the Holy Spirit poured on you means the same thing.
Acts 10:45 poured = Acts 11:16 baptized
But Pauls tells us in Titus 3:6 that the Holy Spirit has been poured on all who are Christians. This is how one becomes saved (Titus 3:5).
(PHB~ Marc, thou dost be somewhat confused over the chain of events and subject matter outlined on this very site. Go to the Holy Ghost Synopsis so that you can receive additional information and address your misunderstanding in this area. FYI- The Holy ghost is a gift received SUBSEQUENT to salvation as outlined in our studies that bear strong scriptural support.
Now to refute this argument regarding Cornelius, it will take some IN CONTEXT scriptural exegesis that neither I or the professors I’ve asked for review can find. So, you believe what you will…I’ll believe the word!—Thank Ya!)
1. The word forgiveness does apply to Cornelius in Acts 10:43. Not only did I cite Thayer but I alo point your attention to Acts 15:7, 8 when Peter recounts what took place. These Gentiles heard the word of the gospel and they believed. That is how sinners become saved. You must demonstrate that “believed” here does not mean going from unsaved to saved since the “gospel” is the power of God unto salvation (Romans 1:16).
(PHB~ Marc, once again thanks for your comments. The scriptures you recite in Acts 15:7-8 only present a picture of Peter’s taking charge to diffuse an argument. Peter in v. 7 recants that “by his mouth” the Gentiles heard the word and believed. Only at NO POINT in his dissertation does he mention Cornelius is the “gentile(s)” that he is referring to. Commentaries often make this correlation as they often refer back to Acts 10 however that in no way makes Cornelius the object of his dissertation. Further luke records in Act 10 as I’v stated to regarding Cornelius that God tells Peter in the vision BEFORE he met Cornelius “What God hath cleansed (Past tense) call not thou common” Acts 10:15 and when Peter begins to speak to Cornelius he tells him, “That word I say ye Know…” Acts 10:37…In Acts 15 Peter is heading off a debate by taking credit as he knows the crowd will only listen to an Apostle on the greater issue of the work of Crist vs. the works of the Law. The facts remain in tact…CORNELIUS was ALREADY a believer BFORE Peter began to speak. Lexicons are not a substitute for what is actually outlined and there is no oral tradition that has survived to assume that Cornelius was not saved…In addition if he wasn’t saved he added to his OWN salvation and could by virtue say that if it weren’t for him following the sinstructions of the Lord (which God DOES NOT GIVE SINNERS) that he would not be saved.
Therefore your argument is HIGHLY uncompelling if not down right heretical.)
Not only that notice what both Thayer and Kittel state concerning the use of “believed” as it used here:
a. I became a believer, a Christian (page 512).
b. In Peter’s speech in 15:7 “to believe” is used in the sense “to be converted” (TDNT 7:728).
I’d like to see any lexicla evidence that you have that supports the view that believe in this passage does not mean going from the state of being a non-Christian to a Christian.
(PHB~ once again lexica goes so far in interpreting the complete scenario and in your case lexica DOES NOT address the issues at hand. If your argument is successful there are a host of additional problems presented whi make your assertions HIGHLY implausible)
2. You completely avoided Acts 10:45 and Acts 11:16 coupled with Titus 3:6.
(PHB~No, I avoid no particular argument. In fact I specifically deal with Acts 11:16 in the article pointing out what SOZO means and why that word DOES NOT point to spiritual welfare only natural wellbeing. So once again you trying to make the point is highly uncompelling as you offer NO EVIDENCE to defend your position and the evidence that you submit is not cogent or pertaining to the context of scripture)
It is very clear. To have the Spirit poured on you and to be baptized with the Holy Spirit is the same thing. Titus 3:6 states that all who are Christians have been baptized with the Holy Spirit. Verse 5 informs us that this is how a person is saved – and yes the word “save” here means going from a non-Christian to a Christian.
(PHB~ Now, you change the subject from Cornelius to the Baptism of the Holy Ghost which I have referred you to my current study to straighten out your confusion. Facts are that the Holy Ghost is (God) and is a gift from God that can ONLY be “received” by them that are saved. (Jn. 14:17) In EVERY reciteable instance of Holy Ghost Baptism in the New Testament it is clear to see that there was always first repentance, which leads to salvation FOLLOWED by either spiritual baptism, where the Holy Ghost is actually poured out or natural baptism as a means and mode of identification with the NATURAL church. These actions are NEVER one in the same within scripture and I challenge you to point to ONE instance where they are one in the same.
It is a figment of your imagination and a presuppositional conclusion that you make WITHOUT scriptural warrant.)
3. Just because someone knows of something does not necessitate that they embrace it (Acts 26:27, 28).
(PHB~ You revert back to the original argument regarding Cornelius at this point paying NO ATTENTION to the structure of Luke’s writing when he reacnt’s PETER as affirming to Cornelius that He (Cornelius) “Knew” “from the beginning”(arxamenos) the word which was preached…By virtue of us later finding a man IN COMMUNION with God receiving visions, revelations and living out his faith daily…it begs the question that he is ALREADY SAVED. Once again your argument is UNCOMPELLING and UNSCRIPTURAL and further does not do justice to the doctrine of salvation)
4. There is no such thing as a Christian devoid of the Holy Spirit. If you insist otherwise then you have a serious problem with Romans 8:9 and 1 John 4:13.
(PHB ~ Was the thief on the cross a Christian or not? Were the 120 in the upper room Christians or not? The second fallacious argument and misunderstanding you present is when exactly when Christianity began. It began when Jesus said “It is finished” and died. Those who believed from that point on were Christians although we don’t see the word arise until later in sctipture. Once again this a fatal flaw of reform theology…failure to see your nose on your face because it wasn’t written in a lexicon…for shame)
5. Peter did not have to tell the Gentiles to be water baptized for the forgiveness of sins in the name of the Lord as he does in Acts 2:38. This command was never given to the Gentiles.
(PHB~ Corect in a sense. Baptism was never done TO remit sins, it was always for identification with the church as representative of one who’s sins had already been remitted, as in Cornelius’s case. That is clear in Acts 10:48. In fact is reads as follows:
“And he commended them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
Marc, now we can ONLY dialogue if you’re willing to objectively and respectfully look at the material instead of approaching with a preconceived notion and trying to assert that notion. Your argumentation is weak in all areas as it pertains to at least these two subjects and I suggest that you rid yourself of them that have led you to the false assumptions that you’ve shared on this site.
Thanks for stopping and I’ll be praying for your continued growth in the Lord.)
Acts 15:8 – …giving them the Holy Ghost, even as He did unto us.
What happened to the apostles also happened to the Gentiles of Acts 10 (cf. Acts 11:17).
Now look at Acts 11:15 – …the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning
What happened to the apostles also happened to the Gentiles of Acts 10.
Now look at Acts 11:16 – These Gentiles were baptized with the Holy Spirit –>The same holds true with the apostles (Acts 2:4 cf. Acts 1:5).
(PHB~ Marc, this is it for you so unless you actually understand how to read and interpret the bible I don’t think there is anything of value you can add here…These scriptures are not in debate or question, your understanding of them is…When Jesus died and his blood was shed for the remissions of sins, THE NEW TESTAMENT CHURCH WAS ESTABLISHED. Those that believed such as the disciples (most after the resurrection) were SAVED…If you deny this you don’t understand how to interpret the bible. The Old Covenant was finished according to Jesus own words. The New Covenant was in effect and demonstrated by the power of the resurrection. Those that came to Jerusalem were SAVED…already believers but had not received the Holy Ghost. this is what Acts 1:8 comes into effect while speaking to BELIEVERS not SINNERS…”And ye shall receive power “AFTER” that the Holy Ghost is come upon you…”
This is what Peter confirms…the gentiles received the same experience that he and the Apostles received in Acts 2:4…What did peter experience? It was the baptism of the Holy Ghost NOT salvation as he came to the upper room ALREADY saved. The scipture can’t be more clear but you as an arrogant and MISINFORMED scriptural twister will make believe what you will…short of the long get out of the extra books, get on your face and allow the Lord to breath life into your understanding because it’s dark right about now.)
Now look at Acts 11:17 – Peter says they received the SAME GIFT. This gift is the Holy Spirit. I would cite two lexicons that prove as such but you choose to make up your own deinitions.
(PHB~ As noted above, “THE SAME GIFT” was the Holy Ghost NOT salvations as salvation was already posessed by grace through faith IN THE BLOOD THAT WAS ALREADY SHED.)
Now look at Acts 10:45 – the Holy Spirit was poured on them –> So too with the apostles (Acts 2:33)
(PHB~ quoting the scripture means nothing if you don’t know what they mean or how to harmonize them…you obviously don’t so what does this mean? What I’ve already refrenced above)
That is your opinion that Peter is not referring back to the Gentiles of Acts 10.
(PHB~ And any Lexica you quote is ONLY the opinion of the Lexica editors and authors. Their OPINIONS are no more valid and there is more credible biblical evidence in support of my argument, but you confuse the act of receiving the Holy Ghost with the act of salvation and they are TWO DIFFERENT ACTS OF GRACE)
a. On the other hand, in 15:7 the comparitively distant days of the first community in and around Jerusalem are intended, i.e., the time of the conversion of Cornelius, which is shown to be particular venerable by the use of arxomai (TDNT 7:728). The TDNT is not a commentary. It is a lexicon. Not only then are you just giving your own commentary but you can’t even distinguish between what is and what is not a commentary. You just make up your own definitions as you go along. Humpty Dumpty said, “When I use a word it means just what I choose it to mean”. Your assertions by how you define (really redine) the words involved belong in the realm of fairy tale theology. Don’t like the meaning of a word? Hey no problem. Just change it.
(PHB~ I doubt if you even know what that means. So far as “fairy tale theology” you have obviously been indoctrinated in the “Calvinist School of LALA Makebelieve Theoologians” You can’t discern the order of scripture yet alone it’s message, so you’re certainly in NO POSITION to chastize me in any way for your ignorance)
Since you can’t even understand these basic things there is no use addressing topics that require more spiritual insight. I’m not going to bother to teach someone how to read when they refuse to believe that a, b, and c are the first three letters of the alphabet let alone if they even belong in the alphabet!
Later days….
(PHB ~ Marc, this is not your blog page and I certainly wasn’t asking for your interpretation of things. All I ask for is if someone wishes to debate tha they at least know their bible first. You don’t know sound hermenutics and you certainly have no idea what the significance of Peter’s actions were to a man who WAS ALREADY SAVED when Peter came to accept him into the church. The EVIDENCE scripturally and otherwise is against you. Further you have done like the most ARROGANT person that you are and have not addessed any of the difficulties that you would have to overcome IF Cornelius wasn’t already saved…Those difficulties include and BIBLICAL exegesis of how a SINNER, has a fellowship with God, how a SINNER assists God in bringing salvation to himself and to his household, how a SINNER has visions and, prays regularly and is known in the community for his faithful service to God and the synagogue(church)…You’re whole premise is RIDDLED with problems that are far too many to innumerate because you are the epitome or arrogance, self-centered biblical exposition, and demonstration of one with a self serving proposition as it pertains to scripture and the understanding of scripture.
As I said, come to an understanding of how and when a person receives salvation FIRST. Then we can look further because you’re not ready yet in any fashion.)
Arrogant?
I assert something and back it up with lexicons while you assert the opoosite and back it up with…your opinins.
Talk about arrogant!
Yeah OK, you’re right and all the lexicons are wrong.
Pitiful.
PHB~What’s with you Marc? You make a bogus argument disregarding everything that I address simply because you don’t read it in a lexicon.
You haven’t the slightest about how scholarly opinions and views of scripture are formulated, neither do you use any scientific method of deciphering the text…all you know is lexica…obviously you haven’t arrived at the ability to formulate your own conclusions based on the evidence. You wouldn’t last half past a rat’s behind in dialogue with any atheist expecially them that I know…You’re an “establishment king” who thinks that the thoughts you glean from commentaries and lexica are equivalent with complete biblical understanding of passages especially such as those dealing with Cornelius.
Yes…that’s the definition of arrogance…a person who doesn’t care what the EVIDENCE says, attack others with differing opinions, and simply retort to repetition of arguments that have been found to be flawed…The only reason you hold your position is that because of your presuppositional bias and NEED for this scripture to align with your scriptural interpretive…If it doesn’t align, your control beliefs are challenged and even uprotted along with your complete understanding of biblical exegesis (at least in your world) because you’ve got to have a God that can be defined by lexica, commentary and your system of belief…THAT’S ARROGANT! You don’t have a corner on God or scriptural interpretation and all of your shoddy notions are challenged through this piece…
Later Marc, I’ll not post another of your IDIOTIC appeals…Thanks.
Nice job,
you explained it in a very systematic, reasonable manner.
There is no way around this…he was saved prior to Peter’s visit.
thanks for taking the time to do this study.
{PHB~ Thanks Robert. I know I take a risk falling away from the majority view but as you noticed, when all things are considred there is a very solid case here for the church in general to rethink Corneilus and what actually happened in the scripture regarding him. I appreciate you taking the time to consider what’s been outlined. God bless!}
PHB,
Not only that…if you say that Cornelius wasn’t saved prior to Peter’s visit…you’ve got to overthrow about half of Paul’s teaching in Romans and say that the “natural man” CAN please God…
naaaa
Now that’s even another great thought and point! Wonderful.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/recants
re·cant (r-knt)
v. re·cant·ed, re·cant·ing, re·cants
v.tr.
To make a formal retraction or disavowal of (a statement or belief to which one has previously committed oneself).
v.intr.
To make a formal retraction or disavowal of a previously held statement or belief.
I think you might need to do a word search and replace “recount” instead of “recant”.
(PHB~ Michael, I think you may want to actually study instead fo make unscriptural assertions as we’ll see through your rhetoric)
Incidentally, I disagree with your conclusion on synergism. Just because Cornelius did what he was told in the belief he was following God’s direction doesn’t mean he contributed to his salvation in the sense that it diminishes the work of the Holy Spirit in the act of salvation.
(PHB~OK, maybe you should define synergism especially as it pertains to monergism or the work of one. Youdisagree because it never occurred to you that was the case here.)
Cornelius was a God-fearer, meaning he devoutly followed the Jewish rites and customs, believing in them for his salvation.
(PHB~ That’s not in dispute. So you obviously hold to the thought that if Cornelius followed Jewish rites and customs for religious beliefs he obviously was introduced to the concepts of Messiahship through the same scriptures he honored. Since he was in close proximity to the events, he would either have to be dumb or disinterested not to know what was happening in his religion. Since scripture introduces Cornelius as a man who was not only devout but also smart it’s a streatch of the imagination to believe that he either didn’t know about or was never introduced to either Jesus or the events of Jesus life. The proof of the unnamed “Centurion” in the gospels, you just gloss over…why? because that little bit of “what if” places your lame theological construct (at least as you apply it) on its ear. Address the elements of scripture instead of trying to make it fit to your belief system)
Unfortunately, just like all the Jews in Jerusalem who were not only devout but also circumcised and therefore under OT law, he and they were as much in need of salvation as each other. Being acceptABLE does not mean acceptED.
(PHB~ What is the word used in Acts 10:35? looks like accept E D to me. You may want to RECANT or maybe you need a RECOUNT too.)
We can adduce that God’s sovereign plan was to have Peter go and preach the gospel, whereby Cornelius would be saved.
(PHB~ You can “adduce” that but as i point out it was much MORE than that.)
Yes, he had heard of Jesus and what had been going on in Judea, but this is quite reasonable given that he was a God-fearer and therefore a frequenter of the synagogue.
(PHB~Well, put 2 and 2 together and what do ya know?)
It was probably a hot topic on everyone’s lips at that time, but we read that at the key moment where Peter talks about believing in him for forgiveness of sins, that is when the Holy Spirit falls. I think it’s reasonable to read into this that until that very moment, God had not granted him the gift of repentance, and in that moment he TRULY believed, solely through the regenerating work of the Holy Spirit.
(PHB~ OK, you at least attempt to make a good biblical argument here and one worth considering. The problem is that if this is your flow, you have a a sinner receiving revelations from God, and in close and strong communication with God. Is this even a characteristic of sin, that one can establish, have and maintain a close relationship with God and still live in it? Not according to Isaiah 59:2. If Cornelius was in sin, he could have verily received a dream according to God’s will to save him or something along those lines, but he LIVED daily in relationship with God. Why dimish the presence of God and promote that he establishes relationship even with unrepentant sinners? unless your THEOLOGY says he was saved even though he was unrepentant…that’s not bible, that’s a construct of men. I’ll follow the word.)
To say Cornelius was saved already flies in the face of Romans 10:14, doesn’t it?
(PHB~No, obviously he had already heard and been preached to…did you read the article? i lay ths out clearly.)